If getting babtised is just an act you do to let people know you have dedicated your life to Jehovah and you are serving him, then isn't getting married also a public display that you have decided to bond with this person and you want all to know.
So the question is why is it considered fornication if you have sex with this person before your actual marriage ceremonies?
Big Jim
JoinedPosts by Big Jim
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Question ?
by Big Jim inif getting babtised is just an act you do to let people know you have dedicated your life to jehovah and you are serving him, then isn't getting married also a public display that you have decided to bond with this person and you want all to know.. so the question is why is it considered fornication if you have sex with this person before your actual marriage ceremonies?
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Big Jim
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Special Announcement !
by Big Jim infredhall has been disfellowshipped from the jehovahs witness.com board for conduct un-becoming an apostate.. which means that none of us good apostates can reply to his post.
if you do you will be marked as a un-approved poster on this board.. dont that make you sad?
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Big Jim
FredHall has been disfellowshipped from the Jehovahs Witness.Com board for conduct un-becoming an Apostate.
Which means that none of us good Apostates can reply to his post. If you do you will be marked as a un-approved poster on this board.
Dont that make you sad?
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Remembering Will
by SlayerLayer ini didn't really know these people that well.
i was only ten.
we were at their house eating dinner, one sunday after the meeting.
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Big Jim
Sad story and it really goes to show how the Borg has and continues to destroy many lifes.
Even after you get out the after shock can last for years. It is to bad that Will could not have learned the truth about the non-truth so he would not have been so guilt ridden.Sorry for the loss.
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Big Jim
Don't be shy, more input please.
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You Have Got To Read This ! Comments Please?
by Big Jim inthe mormons.
jehovah's witnesses.
are the same organisation.
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Big Jim
THE MORMONS
AND THE
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
ARE THE SAME ORGANISATION
by David IckeIt's amazing how everything fits together in the world of the Illuminati if you are prepared to dig deep enough.
The people and organisations who attack and abuse each other in public, or appear to be in competition, turn out over and over to be different masks on the same face. Take the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses (if we must).
We are told they are different organisations which stand for different "beliefs" and the followers of both would be aghast at the thought that they could be connected in any way. But then the mass of unthinking followers in any religion are merely the fodder and the screen behind which the real business goes on.
The founders of both "faiths", the Mormons and JWs, were of the Illuminati bloodline. Charles Taze Russell, who founded the Watchtower Society (JWs), was of the Illuminati Russell bloodline, which also founded the infamous Skull and Bones Society at Yale University. Charles Taze Russell was a Satanist, a paedophile according to his wife, and a friend of the Rothschilds. Indeed it was the Rothschilds who funded the Jehovah's Witness operation into being, along with other Illuminati bankers, through "contributions" by organisations like the Rothschild-controlled B'nai B'rith. This was proved in a court of law in 1922. One of the key people involved in this was Frank Goldman who later became President of B'nai B'rith. Why would an organisation set up (in theory) to help Jewish people and promote the Jewish faith, be funding into existence the Jehovah's Witnesses?? I think the name Rothschild answers the question. Russell was also a high degree Freemason and Knights Templar. He promoted Zionism, another Rothschild creation (see Was Hitler a Rothschild), on behalf of his friends and backers.
Joseph Smith, along with Hiram Smith and Brigham Young, were the key figures behind the creation of the Mormon religion. They were of the elite of the elite Illuminati bloodline, the Merovingian or "Holy Grail" line, and were all high degree Freemasons. They were also Satanists and formed their "church" as a front for Satanic activity which very much still goes on today. Why wouldn't it, that is what it is there for. The Mormon empire was funded into existence by the Rothschilds through their Kuhn, Loeb, bank which also funded the Russian Revolution and Adolf Hitler, and yet again B'nai Brith, the Rothschild intelligence arm and defamer of genuine researchers, was involved.
Notice any similarities between the last two paragraphs??
Again the followers of these mind control cults would be shocked to think that the upper levels of these "religions" would engage in Satanic activity and human sacrifice of children, but it is about time they knew.
Russell's family was formerly known as Roessel and went to Scotland from Germany. Of course, Germany is a massive occult centre, from which the Rothschilds emerged, and Scotland is one of the key areas of the world for Illuminati bloodlines. From the start, Charles Taze Russell used his new Watchtower Society, based at Bethel, Brooklyn, New York, as a front for black magic, or Enochian magic as his brand of Satanism was called. He put the flying Sun disk on the front of his books, an ancient Illuminati symbol going back to Egypt and Babylon. The Watchtower magazine has always been a mass of subliminal and less subliminal occult symbolism and the very name, Watchtower, is part of Illuminati and Freemasonic legend and code. To them watchtowers are areas of the "magical universe". The unseen realms. Russell was buried under a pyramid in the United States after being ritually killed on Halloween 1917. These leading Satanists of the Illuminati are ritually killed when their time comes in line with their obsession with ritual. To them, everything is ritual. Again and again the Jehovah's Witness church is named by survivors of trauma-based mind control as being involved in these unspeakable mind control projects.
The Mormons were also created as a front for Satanism and, like the Watchtower Society, Enochian magic.When I spoke in Salt Lake City near to the Mormon Temple, I came across the fascinating book by William J. Schnoebelen called Mormonism's Temple of Doom. Schnoebelen was initiated into the Wicca religion, then into Freemasonry, before going through the Mormon initiation in the Salt Lake temple. He shows in great detail that all three initiations were the same. The same oaths, secret handshakes, and garb. Of course they are. We are looking at one face here hidden by many masks. The Salt Lake temple is covered with Illuminati symbols, like the All Seeing Eye, and it is built with granite, a rock which has been used throughout the ages for temples on earth power centres and for esoteric initiation. The Mormons also use the bee symbol, a classic symbol of the Merovingian bloodine which people like the author, Sir Laurence Gardner, want to kid us goes back to "Jesus" when in fact it is the "Holy Grail" bloodline of the Illuminati, the "purest" reptilian line. Joseph Smith carried a dove medallion given to him by an English masonic lodge. The dove is Illuminati symbolism for Queen Semiramis, the female deity in their Babylonian trinity. The Mormon Church, like the Watchtower Society, is also a front for trauma-based mind control. Many survivors have told of their horrific torture in Salt Lake City in Mormon buildings and centres. The Mormon genealogy operation is also a front behind which the Illuminati keep track of the reptilian bloodline, who has it to a "pure" enough level and who has not.
You won't be surprised to know, therefore, that the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses are the same organisation at the top level where the Elders of the Mormons and the leaders of the Watchtower Society operate a very different agenda to the one their followers believe. But what chance have you got of knowing what is happening within your "church" when you refuse to think or question? "Have faith", the mantra of these religious con-men through the ages, really means "Don't think and don't question." I was taken around the Mormon temple site (not the temple which is only for initiates) by two lovely girls from Thailand and Hong Kong. They had worked their asses off for years to pay their own fare to America and to pay for their own accommodation and living expenses for the privilege of serving this unbelievably wealthy organisation, as "guides" (recruiters) for the faith. On the way round, I asked them what they thought the significance was of the founders of the Mormon church all being high degree Freemasons. They looked at each other for a moment in bewilderment and then one said: "What's Freemasonry?"
And a few can't control the world??
I want to give people the opportunity here to tell their stories about the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses - and any other religious fronts - both to expose what is happening and to give people still in those "faiths" the chance to see what is really going on around them. If you want to contribute your experiences on these subjects please sent them to this website and we will start a new archive if there is a big enough response. You may have seen two contributions about the Watchtower society already.
Have faith!
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HARD CORE ATHEIST QUOTES !
by Big Jim inhard core.
"i think every good christian ought to kick falwell's ass.".
senator goldwater.
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Big Jim
Thanks To The Both Of You.
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Some More Good Quotes !
by Big Jim in"a man without a god is like a fish without a bicycle.".
..........adapted from a quotation of feminist gloria steinem.
the last christian died on a cross.. ..........friedrich wilhelm nietzsche.
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Big Jim
"A man without a god is like a fish without a bicycle."
..........Adapted from a quotation of feminist Gloria Steinem"Killing for peace is like fucking for chastity"
..........Author Unknow"If, as they say, God spanked this town
For being much too frisky,
Why did He burn His churches down
And save Hotaling's Whiskey?"
.........[Poem on 1906 San Francisco earthquake and fire, in which the city's largest whiskey distillery was left unscathed]"If god doesn't like the way I live, Let him tell me, not you."
There are none more ignorant and useless, than they that seek answers on their knees, with their eyes closed.
Several thousand years ago, a small tribe of ignorant near-savages wrote various collections of myths, wild tales, lies, and gibberish. Over the centuries, these stories were embroidered, garbled, mutilated, and torn into small pieces that were then repeatedly shuffled. Finally, this material was badly translated into several languages successively. The resultant text, creationists feel, is the best guide to this complex and technical subject.
The religion of one age is the literary entertainment of the next.
To the philosophic eye, the vices of the clergy are far less dangerous than their virtues.
The mind of the fundamentalist is like the pupil of the eye: the more light you pour on it, the more it will contract.
Theology: The study of elaborate verbal disguises for non-ideas.
"Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject -- otherwise there's no need for faith."
Humanity's first sin was faith; the first virtue was doubt.
Any belief worth having must survive doubt.
"Organized religion is like organized crime; it preys on peoples' weaknesses, generates huge profits for its operators, and is almost impossible to eradicate."
..........Author Unknown"I am treated as evil by those who feel persecuted because they are not allowed to force me to believe as they do."
..........author unknown"A society without religion is like a crazed psychopath without a .45."
..........Author Unknown"Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned."
..........Author Unknown"Christian Fundamentalism: The doctrine that there is an absolutely powerful, infinitely knowledgeable, universe spanning entity that is deeply and personally concerned about my sex life."
..........Author Unknown"'God is as real as I am', the old man said. I was relieved since I knew Santa wouldn't lie to me..."
..........Author Unknown"Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish."
..........Author Unknown"Not only is there no god, but try getting a plumber on weekends."
..........Woody Allen"When the doors of perception are cleansed, man will see things as they truly are, infinite."
..........William Blake"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."
..........Derek Bok - Harvard President"Confession without repentance is just bragging."
..........Rev. Eugene Bolton"Anyone who engages in the practice of psychotherapy confronts every day the devastation wrought by the teachings of religion."
..........Nathaniel Branden, Ph.D.Imagine the ego of the human race, to consider themselves so grand, as to warrant a creator worthy of praise.
..........Robert Brunswick Jr.For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command or faith a dictum. I am my own God. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.
..........Charles Bukowski"It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him."
..........Arthur C. Clarke"Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense."
..........Chapman Cohen"I do not believe in god because I do not believe in Mother Goose."
..........Clarence Darrow"I've been reading an Alabama newspaper that one man shot another man because he beat him in a Bible-quoting competition."
..........Richard Dawkins"I think; therefore I am."
..........Rene Descartes"Men have never fully used [their] powers to advance the good in life, because they have waited upon some power external to themselves and to nature to do the work they are responsible for doing."
..........John Dewey"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
..........Philip K. Dick"I believe the spreading of Catholicism to be the most horrible means of political and social degradation left in the world."
..........Charles DickensAsked soon after Carl's death:
"Didn't [Sagan] want to believe?"
She responded, "He didn't want to believe. He wanted to know."
..........Ann Druyan (Carl Sagan's wife)"I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious theories of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a personal God."
..........Thomas Edison"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
..........Albert Einstein"The gods can either take away evil from the world and will not, or, being willing to do so, cannot; or they neither can nor will, or lastly, they are both able and willing. If they have the will to remove evil and cannot, then they are not omnipotent. If they can, but will not, than they are not benevolent. If they are neither able nor willing, then they are neither omnipotent nor benevolent. Lastly, if they are both able and willing to annihilate evil, how does it exist?"
..........Epicures, 300 B.C."If 50 million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing"
..........Anatole France"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
..........Ben Franklin Poor Richard's Almanack, 1758"Christ died for our sins. Dare we make his martyrdom meaningless by not committing them?"
..........Jules Feiffer"Not only is there nothing to be gained by believing an untruth, but there is everything to lose when we sacrifice the indispensable tool of reason on the altar of superstition."
..........Freedom From Religion Foundation"In the long run nothing can withstand reason and experience, and the contradiction religion offers to both is only too palpable."
..........Sigmund Freud"We dance around in a ring and suppose, while the secret sits in the middle and knows."
..........Robert Frost"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect, had intended for us to forgo their use."
..........Galileo Galilei"See now, how men lay blame upon us gods for what is after all nothing but their own folly."
..........Homer, The Odyssey"Agnosticism simply means that a man shall not say he knows or believes that for which he has no grounds for professing to believe."
..........Thomas Henry Huxley"Organized religion: The world's largest pyramid scheme."
..........Bernard Katz"I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end... where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice."
..........Pres. John F. Kennedy"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking."
..........John Maynard Keynes"The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance...logic can be happily tossed out the window."
..........Stephen King"Randomness scares people. Religion is a way to explain randomness."
..........Fran Lebowitz"The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church."
..........Ferdinand Magellan"I count religion but a childish toy,
And hold there is no sin but ignorance."
..........Christopher Marlowe"It requires only two things to win credit for a miracle: a mountebank and a number of silly women."
..........Marquis de Sade"Religion is the opiate of the masses."
..........Karl Marx"Anail Nathrach Uatha Bha'is Bith Thonn Du'iseacnt Le De'anamh E!..."
(Serpent's breath Death's Cave and Waves of Being Awaken with making!)
..........Merlin"I have my own God, and I think my God finds me incredibly fucking funny. That's why I chose him as my God ... "
..........Dennis Miller"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
..........Wilson Mizner"One would like to believe that people who think of themselves as devout Christians would also behave in a manner that is in according with Christian ethics. But pastorally and existentially, I know that this is not the case, and never has been."
..........John Neuhaus, in San Jose Mercury NewsThe last Christian died on a cross.
..........Friedrich Wilhelm NietzscheFaith: not wanting to know what is true.
..........Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche"I cannot believe in a God who wants to be praised all the time."
..........Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche"In Christianity neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point."
..........Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche"The man of the future who will redeem us not only from the hitherto reigning ideal but also from that which was bound to grow out of it, the great nausea, the will to nothingness, nihilism; this bell stroke of noon and of the great decision that liberates the will again and restores its goal to the earth and his hope to man; this Antichrist and anti-nihilist; this victor over God and nothingness - he must come one day."
..........Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche"Religion has caused more misery to all men in every state of human history than any other single idea."
..........Madelyn Murray O'Hair"No God ever gave any man anything, nor ever answered any prayer at any time -- nor ever will."
..........Madelyn Murray O'Hair"The only force more devastating than a nuclear holocaust is a group of Christians fresh out of church."
..........Matt Polek"Better to be unborn than untaught, for ignorance is the root of all misfortune."
..........Plato"Thanks for the job, Mickey."
..........Pluto"I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods you will understand why I dismiss yours."
..........Stephen F. Roberts"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing, all-powerful God, who creates faulty humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes."
..........Gene Roddenberry"Indifference to religion, due to thought, strengthens character,"
..........W.T. Root, Prof. of Psychology at Univ. of Pittsburgh, after examining 1,916 prisoners."It is an interesting and demonstrable fact, that all children are atheists and were religion not inculcated into their minds, they would remain so."
..........Ernestine Rose"Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth, more than ruin, more even than death...Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man."
..........Bertrand Russell"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
..........Carl Sagan"I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking."
..........Carl Sagan --The Demon-Haunted World"The world is so exquisite, with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better, it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look Death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides."
..........Carl Sagan --Billions and Billions"This above all: to thine own self be true."
..........William Shakespeare (Polonius)"The Devil can cite scripture for his purpose."
..........William Shakespeare"All religions are founded on the fear of the many and the cleverness of the few."
..........Stendhal"I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't think there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and parading around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face white and praying to a rock."
..........Howard Stern"It's an incredible con job when you think about it, to believe something now in exchange for something after death. Even corporations with their reward systems don't try to make it posthumous."
..........Gloria Steinem"I was getting tired about what the preacher called Christian. Anything he did was Christian, and the people in the church believed it, too. If he stole some book he didn't like from the library, or made the radio station play only part of the day on Sunday, or took somebody off to the state poor home, he called it Christian. I never had much religious training, and I never went to Sunday school because we didn't belong to the church when I was old enough to go, but I thought I knew what believing in Christ meant, and it wasn't half the things the preacher did."
..........John Kennedy Toole -- The Neon Bible"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying."
..........Kurt Vonnegut, Jr."Life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel."
..........Horace Walpole"When it comes to a choice between two evils, I always choose the one I haven't tried before."
..........Mae West"Truth in matters of religion is simply the opinion that has survived."
..........Oscar Wilde"The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world its own shame."
..........Oscar Wilde"I was driving alone one day and I saw a hitchhiker with a sign saying Heaven. So I hit him."
..........Steven Wright"Fundamentalists are like the fir trees in German forests: they cannot stand alone, and are only stable when crowded together, branches locked with those of their brothers. That is why we must always fear them, because they will always hate us for our individualism."
..........Brent Yaciw"If the lord had meant us to have faith, he'd have given us lobotomies."
..........Zlatko -
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HARD CORE ATHEIST QUOTES !
by Big Jim inhard core.
"i think every good christian ought to kick falwell's ass.".
senator goldwater.
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Big Jim
Hard Core
"I think every good Christian ought to kick Falwell's ass."
Senator Goldwater"Religion is comparable to a childhood neurosis."
..........Sigmund Freud, "Future of an Illusion". 1927"Geology shows that fossils are of different ages. Paleontology shows a fossil sequence, the list of species represented changes through time. Taxonomy shows biological relationships among species. Evolution is the explanation that threads it all together. Creationism is the practice of squeezing one's eyes shut and wailing 'does not!'"
.......... [email protected]"The careful student of history will discover that Christianity has been of very little value in advancing civilization, but has done a great deal toward retarding it."
..........Matilda Joslyn Gage, "Woman, Church and State", 1893"When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion."
..........Robert M. Pirsig"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, Your Christians are so unlike your Christ"
..........Mahatma Gandhi"A disturbing fact continues to surface in sex abuse research. The first best predictor of abuse is alcohol or drug addiction in the father. But the second best predictor is conservative religiosity, accompanied by parental belief in traditional male-female roles. This means that if you want to know which children are most likely to be sexually abused by their father, the second most significant clue is *whether or not the parents belong to a conservative religious group with traditional role beliefs and rigid sexual attitudes*. (Brown and Bohn, 1989; Finkelhor, 1986; Fortune, 1983; Goldstein et al, 1973; Van Leeuwen, 1990). (emphasis in original)
.........."Sexual Abuse in Christian Homes and Churches", by Carolyn Holderread Heggen, Herald Press, Scotdale, PA, 1993 p. 73"The profession of shaman has many advantages. It offers high status with a safe livelihood free of work in the dreary, sweaty sense. In most societies it offers legal privileges and immunities not granted to other men. But it is hard to see how a man who has been given a mandate from on High to spread tidings of joy to all mankind can be seriously interested in taking up a collection to pay his salary; it causes one to suspect that the shaman is on the moral level of any other con man. But it is a lovely work if you can stomach it."
..........Lazarus Long, Time enough for Love, by Robert Heinlein"It never ceases to amaze me at how many religions depend upon circumcised penises.
..........Dawn Henderson"It's interesting to speculate how it developed that in two of the most anti-feminist institutions, the church and the law court, the men are wearing the dresses."
..........Flo Kennedy"The world holds two classes of men: intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence."
..........Abu'l-Ala-Al-Ma'arri"If you love God, burn a church"
..........Jello Biafra (ex-Dead Kennedys singer)"I should like to see, and this will be the last and most ardent of my desires, I should like to see the last king strangled with the guts of the last priest."
..........J. Messelier of Paris, dated 1733:Faith; noun. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel."
..........Ambrose Bierce"Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy."
..........Ambrose BierceScriptures; noun. The sacred books of our holy religion, as distinguished from the false and profane writings on which all other faiths are based.
..........Ambrose Bierce"We would be 1,500 years ahead if it hadn't been for the church dragging science back by its coattails and burning our best minds at the stake."
..........Catherine Fahringer"Life in Lubbock, Texas taught me two things. One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, dirty thing on the face of the earth and you should save it for someone you love."
..........Butch Hancock"If we are going to teach 'creation science' as an alternative to evolution, then we should also teach the stork theory as an alternative to biological reproduction."
..........Judith Hayes"The most ridiculous concept ever perpetrated by H. Sapiens is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of his creations, that he can be persuaded by their prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not receive this flattery. Yet this ridiculous notion, without one real shred of evidence to bolster it, has gone on to found one of the oldest, largest and least productive industries in history."
..........Robert A. Heinlein"Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to investigate."
..........F.M. Knowles"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so."
..........Bertrand Russell"What was it that Adam ate that he wasn't supposed to eat? It wasn't just an apple. It was the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. The subtle message? 'Get smart and I'll fuck you over' sayeth the Lord. God is the smartest, and he doesn't want any Competition. Is this not an absolutely anti-intellectual religion?"
..........Frank Zappa"You are never dedicated to do something you have complete confidence in. No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow. They know it's going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kind of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt."
..........Robert M. Pirsig, "Zen & The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance""If God has spoken, why is the world not convinced."
..........Percy Bysshe Shelley, English poet (1792-1822)"A believer is not a thinker and a thinker is not a believer."
..........Marian Noel Sherman, M.D. Interview, Daily Colonist, c. 1969"Has science ever retreated? No! It is Catholicism which has always retreated before her, and will always be forced to retreat."
..........Emile Zola (1840-1902), French novelist, from Rufus K. Noyes, Views of Religion -
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A Good Article I Found! Subject:Organized Religion
by Big Jim inthe truth about organized religion.
christians and theists often state that without religion people would resort to barbarism and anarchy.
in reality however some of the greatest acts of cruelty have come from organized religion, such as: .
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Big Jim
The Truth About Organized Religion
Christians and theists often state that without religion people would resort to barbarism and anarchy. In reality however some of the greatest acts of cruelty have come from Organized Religion, such as:
Emperor Constantine institutes the killing of heretics (yeah, Rome fell shortly after)
The Crusades and other religious wars to numerous to count, in fact organized religion along with nationalism is the leading cause of war
The Papal Inquisition
The Roman Inquisition
The Spanish Inquisition
The persecution of Giordano, Bruno and Galileo, among other scientist (remember class the sun revolves around the earth and Jerusalem is the center of the universe!)
Okay it's true this is all in the past and the church has moved on right, well if you think that the KKK has moved on because they don't perform lynching then sign up with them too. The church is no less powerful today than in the past, think about the Christian Coalition and other such right wing christian-fascist organizations. Here's what the theists are doing today:
The Roman Catholic church still is against masturbation and contraceptive use even though upwards of 90% of American males masturbate and we have an aids epidemic
Christianity still persecutes homosexuals and other minorities
Christian churches still pushes for censorship of such outlets as the internet, the radio, your SCHOOL libraries (hmm... I thought we had separation of church and state), the T.V., etc.
The church still involves itself in politics, even though that is in direct violation of their tax exemption (I suppose the church does have to honor it's promises)
The Islamic Terrorists
The ongoing terrorism in N. Ireland (I.R.A. and Orangemen)
Lobbying the government to force equal-time for creationism on schools. Equal-time means that the schools will have to teach 150+ creation myths... Christianity doesn't a monopoly in creation myths
I don't fear that the church will ever get as out as control as in the past but as far as war goes where do you think the next major war is going to take place? The Middle East maybe? And who do you think will always be trying to sensor everything before you get to take a look at it? And what church is going to tell you what family values are? Who is going to slow the process of science by trying to force creation "science" on people?
The greatest threat of modern religion is the rigid moral system that some wish to force on the public. I've meet many Christians that are happy with their religion and keep it to themselves but an insidious minority within the church and the Republican party is working for censorship and laws reflecting their religion's morals. People don't seem to understand that instead of increasing the size and bulk of laws and legislature that the goal of any reasonable society should be to work for the end in which there is no need for laws, police and government. That ideal society may be a long way off but it will be even further off if we don't start working today.What can I do? Well first off I believe we aren't ready for anarchy or anything of the sort just yet but we need to start working towards brotherhood today!
Here are some ideas of what you can do:
Start to treat everyone with an open mind.
Write, there is a need for good atheistic literature, get your ideas out... websites, books, etc.
If you are a Christian raise your children however you choose but if they don't think like you do, accept them, the same goes for people of all beliefs.
Stop abusing homosexuals. Gay people have been around long before the first Christian or Jew. This is coming from a straight white male!, if I can accept them as the W.A.S.P., (wait switch that "P" for an "A"), I am so can you!
Vote!, the only thing stopping Pat Robertson from moving in to that big house on Pennsylvania Ave. is your vote. -
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Big Jim
I am from Houston Texas myself.